Grooms and the wedding industrial complex
Offbeat grooms
Guestpost by
on February 01, 2012
70
Who says dudes don't care about flower selection!? Thanks to Alice for uploading this to the Flickr Pool! Photo by Paul F. P. Pogue
My partner, Alex, and I took a day off from work to attend to some wedding-related appointments. First, we went to the event rental place to look at linens, extra chairs, silverware, etc. When we got there, the "Wedding Specialist" introduced herself to me and shook my hand. She then turned around and started walking us back to the conference room without even acknowledging Alex. During the consultation, she addressed all the questions to me, without asking Alex his opinion on anything. After she asked a question, I would turn to Alex and ask his opinion (partially because he's better at things like color and design than I am, but mostly because IT'S HIS WEDDING TOO AND I WANT HIM TO FEEL INCLUDED). He'd give his opinion and she'd just stare at me like he hadn't said anything at all.
It was weird but we got through it, only to encounter it again!
He felt like everyone was judging him and he was afraid to give his opinions because he thought the sales associates would think he was trying to take away "my special day."
Next, we went to David's Bridal to look at a few dresses. When we walked in the sales associate that was assigned to us introduced herself to me (while squealing and smiling) and completely ignored Alex. She didn't even introduce herself. After I tried on the dresses, I (with Alex's help of course) decided on one and bought it. We left without the sales lady even saying a word to Alex the whole time. She did however congratulate me numerous times and thanked me profusely.
Now I know why men often don't want to be included in wedding related appointments. It's not because they're not interested, it's because they know that when they go they'll be ignored and treated like crap. This makes me so sad!
Alex and I talked about the events of the day that night and he told me how uncomfortable and offended he was. He said that he felt like everyone was judging him and he was afraid to give his opinions because he thought the sales associates would think he was trying to take away "my special day" and control me. It's just not fair that even when he tries to be a part of these decisions, he's basically told that this wedding has nothing to do with him. It seems the wedding industrial complex just wants him to shut his mouth and open his wallet.
In hindsight, I should have introduced him to the sales associates and forced them to acknowledge him, but I think I felt too shocked to do anything. I still feel really guilty about that.
But more-so, it hurts my heart that he's being excluded from this very important event in his life. The wedding industrial complex should be ashamed.
Who's got suggestions for ways to talk to vendors who may not acknowledge both partners' roles in wedding planning?
About kendallgiraffe
I just graduated from college with a degree in English Literature and a minor in Women's Studies. I'm hoping to start teaching high school English in low-income communities. I live with my fiance, his identical twin brother, and our three cats.
Shannon said
I haven't run into this YET but mostly because I've done all emails and what not so far.. not looking forward to the appointments to come if it will be like this.
I think it's this way for more than wedding's though, My love and I went to buy a couch.. the sales lady excluded him from everything and even repeatedly joked with me that "he's just a guy" and that "his opinion doesn't really matter does it"… With that we got up and left and made a formal complaint to her manager.
I think I'll treat the wedding industry the same. If you can't include my love.. I can't find a way to include you in OUR big day. They won't be getting my money.
Also I do give them a heads up before hand via email etc that I'm bringing my love and that we're in this together and his opinion matters just as much as mine.. If after that they STILL exclude him.. We'll go elsewhere.
Lena said
I don't have advice, but sadly it's something that doesn't just stop with engagements. I've always been shocked by the number of people who completely ignore my son's father or my fiance when we're at appointments for my son. Dr's in particular are the worse. We've finally got my son's pediatrician talking to both of them, but for a good long while they would barely even acknowledge the men in the room!
Faith-Anne said
This is so true. When my husband & I just created a Babies R Us registry, I became so frustrated that I was automatically handed the registry form when my husband was the one who approached the counter.
Tina said
People always seemed genuinely shocked that my boyfriend and I complete each other's thoughts during conversations about our children. They don't know how to react when we are both tuned in to how the kids are but guess what? We are both parents and that's what we do.
Amanda G said
I noticed this when my future husband and I went to a bridal showcase together. After it happened the first time, I waited until they addressed the question to me and then turned to him and let him answer. Most of them understood to talk to both of us after that, and those who didn't weren't people that we wanted to work with. It was very important to me to present a united front, especially because, like you said, it's his wedding too.
Emily said
When we were in contact with vendors, we signed our emails from both of us (and it truly was our joint wedding account). If they couldn't be bothered to respond to BOTH of us, then their stock went WAAAY down.
moonlitfractal said
I think I've used this method subconsciously in the few situations I've needed too. I'm on the shy side so he usually does most of the talking when we meet new vendors.
Faith-Anne said
Unfortunately it's not just the wedding industry that acts like grooms are unimportant to weddings. My husband was very depressed, because he kept hearing things like the phrase "It's all about the bride" coming from everywhere–media, vendors, friends, family, you name it…I made it a point to tell vendors from the beginning that we worked as a team.
I made it a point to ask my husband's opinion for every aspect of the wedding unless there was something he felt more strongly about than I did (or vice versa). For example, he tackled choosing the cake by himself. I wasn't really interested in the design and having a certain kind of cake meant a lot to him. He picked out what his groomsmen would wear, & I chose my bridesmaid's dresses around his men's outfits. When someone had a problem with my husband having say-so over something I gently reminded them that he was half of the wedding. There wouldn't be a wedding without him.
Allowing your husband-to-be the option to get creative on his own is a great recipe to get over some of the "I'm not the bride, so I don't matter" funk that guys can easily get into. I also made him his own binder for wedding information labeled "Here Comes the Groom", & I made him a mug that reads "It's All about the Groom" with photos of him in his wedding gear once everything was said & done.
Laurel said
Based on what I hear from my fiance – the Wedding Industrial Complex may have picked this up because BRIDES themselves have co-opted the day to make it "all about them" and leave the groom out of it. My fiance said that for his first wedding, he was completely shut out of the planning process and told by his fiance and her family that it was a "girl thing" to plan and he just needed to show up and that was all. No input required on his part. Perhaps if more and more brides at large include the fiance's eventually vendors will start to get the hint. Maybe. We can hope.
Isa said
I know this isn't always possible, but, the most influential thing you could do is spend your money elsewhere.
Taylor said
That is exactly my advice as well. If my partner and I talked to anyone who didn't acknowledge us both equally or made any "How on earth did SHE drag YOU here?! Teehee!"-type comments after we were both clearly invested in the conversation, we just immediately looked elsewhere. Respectful vendors definitely exist!
Jaya said
Exactly, and it doesn't just go for weddings. How long have women been ignored while buying cars, houses, electronics, etc? Even at restaurants I get visibly pissed when I ask for the check and they hand it to my boyfriend. It's all about making it clear that you're in this together (or you're the one treating him to dinner this time), and if they don't get that, leave.
Danikat said
I'm going off on a tangent here but with electronics I sometimes feel like you don't even need someone else there to get the brush off.
Like the time I went looking for a new USB stick. I kept asking what sizes they came in and this guy kept telling me they had 1GB ones in 5 different colours that could be used as keyrings or pendants. How silly of me, I'm female, of course I want a cute little novelty toy instead of something functional.
Luckily the second shop I went into was very helpful.
Elyn said
I had a car salesman point out to me how "twinkly and pretty" the headlights were. I shit you not.
Mai said
I had a car salesman suggest that I have my boyfriend drive to the toyota dealer in Savannah, GA (I was in MN – starting the hunt for a new car on my own) to tell me if he fit and was comfortable in a specific model so that I could buy it that day. Needless to say, I told the guy "No, I'm just starting, and he'll sit in the cars that I like and we'll buy one when he's back." Left toyota (don't think I'll ever like their brand b/c of this guy), ended up buying a different car from a female salesman who was patient and understood life had to get sorted out before I bought.
Amy said
Wow, I thought the akwardness was because my "Groom" was a girl. Guess I was wrong
lindsey said
ugh this is so awful, you aren't marrying yourself!
- in initial contact, include names and email/ phone numbers for both.
- include in all email discussions.
- discover your priorities, your partner's priorities and your priorities as a couple. focusing on individual priorities will help bring them in.
- have a game plan before meeting with vendors, so you can operate in a joined way.
- don't work with people who don't acknowledge your future spouse.
- introduce all parties and speak up for them, and let them speak for themselves.
- there are inclusive resources and groom-only resources out there, find those and ignore the rest!
Jessica said
We encountered this in the beginning; my husband had just as much input in our wedding as I did. We planned our wedding from two states away, so almost every vendor was contacted by phone and e-mail first, and I made it a special point to quite literally say "My fiance is just as, if not, more informed about our wedding than I am." and even if I hadn't said that, my husband is very friendly and talkative, and people tend to gravitate towards him anyway, since I am not friendly and rather caustic. Because we represented a united front when speaking to vendors, they addressed us as a unit. Anyone looking at just me would be verbally corrected IMMEDIATELY. There are so many ways to become upset or frustrated when planning a wedding, I advise controlling the ones you can as soon as they happen. Have confidence! There is no "right way" especially with offbeat brides (and grooms!)
HungryGrad said
Construct a contraption that starts with a walking stick, and put honker horns, bells, and flashing lights on it. Give it to your dude, and whenever you're in a situation where he's being ignored, he should turn on the flashing lights, honk the horns, and shake it around so the bells jingle while shouting "I'M THE MOTHERFUCKING GROOM, BITCHES!! OW-OWWW! THE GROOOOOOOOM! YEAH!" Some wide-eyed stomping, bizarre dancing, and accompanying ululations will ensure you'll never be forgotten.
Well, no.
I mean, that would be awesome, but realistically speaking, I've found it helpful to kind of sit back and let The Boy answer. I've also always referred to him genderlessly as "my partner," and I would bet money that several vendors were expecting two ladies. When he shows up, I've taken advantage of their surprise. I always introduce him (although venders haven't been such raging idiots with us), and – most importantly – he always takes an active role in the conversations. He's not the kind of guy who only speaks when spoken to. Get your dudes to voice an opinion. Jump in. Make it so they can't ignore him.
And if all else fails, see the first paragraph. If you do that, you're pretty much required to take pictures and let us know how it goes.
Patrick said
I've decided to take a cue from an episode from season 7 of Bridezillas (yay, Netflix!), where when I'm getting ignored I'll state, "She may be the bride, but I'm the diva, bitches!"
I haven't had a chance to use it yet. Emphasis on "yet".
Thanks to your post, I'm inspired to make myself a scrolling LED belt buckle that says "I'M THE MOTHERFUCKING GROOM!"
HungryGrad said
Pictures, or it didn't happen.
Bethany said
YES. DANCING GROOM!
HungryGrad said
I had this image of Jack Black in my head.
Andrew said
As a man who runs a wedding website for grooms (sorry to promote but it informs my opinion) I hear this all the time. The fact is that men are interested in their own weddings and more so since the end of the era when the father of the bride paid for the wedding.
In some ways though this set the precedent for how grooms engaged in the wedding. Previously it was about the dad creating the daughter's dream day. Now the couple is paying it makes more sense for the groom to be interested in where their money is going.
Add to that the fact that most men are modern enough that they can discuss flowers without sweating and feeling dangerously metrosexual and you have the melting pot for the conundrum of the modern groom.
Currently the wedding industry is set up to market to the bride. They are slowly catching up to the idea that the man exists though. Sorry y'all husbands-to-be have had a rough time but tell them they're pioneers, they'll dig that.
Best wishes,
Shan
Nichole said
We have had the worst time with this. I had wanted to elope but fiancee (for very good reasons) wanted a ceremony, so in the end, he won.
Everytime we try to do something, every talks directly to me. We have had to argue our way through the planning process because it's just 'unusual when the groom wants the wedding and the bride doesn't'.
And our families are just as bad as the vendors. They cannot understand why I would want the guy I've been with and had help me with every major decision for the last 10 years to help make the decisions with the wedding, particularly my dress.
The worse thing though I thought was the bridal 'shows'. There was a local expo a few weeks ago where the flyer actually said "Brides, make sure to bring your groom. We will be having a special 'Groom's Room' where we will have a big screen TV showing the play-offs so even he will have a good time"……After I saw that, we elected not to go.
Good luck with your planning,
Nichole
Andrew said
Hahaha that's almost word for word what I've been saying for years!
Megan said
Yeah, there was a "man cave" at one of the shows we went to. It was so weird. Of course, my boyfriend didn't like sport anyway, but he still wanted to look around with me since it was OUR wedding we were planning!
Sara B said
Hah! I ended up in the "Man Cave area" at our local bridal show when I went alone. The frou-frou, poofy, and prices got to me and I started having a bit of a panic attack. Then I noticed the comfy couches and college football in the corner. 0.2 seconds later, I was reclining and rooting on whoever was playing. My brain calmed down after that.
laura said
Have to say i've not experienced this so far at all, and i'm very glad. I hate making decisions with my partner. Every appointment we've been to we've both been intoduced to and included in all discusson, it hasn't even seemed like they were making an effort to involve him. It was all just very natural. Maybe this difference is because im from the UK? is it a cultural difference?
Puzemuze said
I do notice cultural differences with US weddings, but in this case I have no idea. We haven't had such experiences either and we're dutch. Maybe it varies per country, maybe we are just lucky…who can tell?
Sara b said
im an american living in Holland! from what i can tell, weddings here have been paid by the bride and groom as a couple for a lot longer whereas in america it is just starting to be the Way Things Are Done. that, and (at least here in hilversum) a lot of guys are confident enough to care about flowers and their suits and other things that sometimes seem girly in america. my friend made the bouquet for his bride and she was SO THRILLED and proud that he made it for her.
Sara b said
bad phrasing, guys arent more confident to do "girly" things, the gender stereotypes just are not as strong here, which gives men the freedom to care about things usually "reserved" to women in america.
Heather said
Nice save! (Sincerely.)
Jenn said
same, I'm American but live in the UK and my partner gets included in all our discussions with vendors.
Megan said
I deinfately ran into this when my boyfrined attended bridal shows, etc. with me. Everyone was so SURPRISED that he was there.
There is the negative situation some of these associates may have been fearing though, and I'm seeing it with my best friend and her boyfriend right now. Their wedding is in just a few months, and he is saying NO to absolutely everything. He is telling her what kind of dress to wear, and refusing to allow any of her cute "off-beat" ideas (that aren't even that outlandish.) Nothing but tradition. period.
His controlling attitude is putting up red flags all over the place and I'm only hoping I can help my friend manage it.
Gypsyfrogg said
Oh my! I've heard of bridezilla..is this groomzilla? (kidding!!)
Perhaps her betrothed is blissfully un-aware of how much support there actually IS for her offbeat ideas? (To be honest, I was myself!)
Maybe if she gave him some resources to check out, seeing how awesome weddings that aren't solely traditional can turn out, he will open his views.
On the other foot, I have known ladies to literally sulk and pout if not getting their way ABSOLUTELY, and the groom-to-be let's her have flaming skulls or whatever, even though he wasn't comfortable with it. There should be understanding and if not all ideas are agreed upon, compromises should be made that leaves everyone happy!
I can personally relate, my beau and I are both "offbeat/traditional" but he is far less comfortable with "letting it all hang out" in situations where people have automatic expectations than I am. And seriously, whether or not people think the man could care less, if he shows up you need to freaking acknowledge BOTH parties.
Ariel Meadow Stallings said
Groomzilla: http://offbeatbride.com/2006/10/groomzilla
LOLBear said
We ran into this somewhat- If it were up to me, we'd have eloped quietly but he's an only child, so it was important to him that we had a ceremony. Okay, said me, you plan it then.
He did. He contacted people and set up appointments. When they talked only to me, we didn't go with them. We wound up our location because they talked primarily to him and while they did cc me on emails, they addressed everything to him and never 2nd guessed what he asked for.
Spend your money at places that treat you the way you want to be treated. There's no reason to swallow bad behavior just because you're getting married. You can always find another venue, florist, baker, dress shop, whatever. Don't reward the awful by giving them your business.
Ariella said
Unfortunately, my fiance experienced this with his first wedding. His former MIL highjacked the wedding and ignored everything he wanted. He didn't even want much, but he did want certain small things like a cake that he wasn't, you know, ALLERGIC to!
Now he's convinced that he shouldn't be involved and that my mother is going to veto all of my less than traditional ideas.
Emily said
For future brides: Having a mental plan can be quite helpful, i.e. "What will I say/do in icky situations?" I may have gone a little overboard in mental preparedness, as I was almost eager for some sort of feminist fight that never happened…. sigh. I want to talk about HIS engagement ring! And all the other 'unusual' choices.
Ann said
I have tried everything to include my dude in the planning but he's not interested. However, that's not because it's a wedding and he's a guy. My dude's just not into parties. I love parties. I throw a costumed birthday party for myself every year and my dude has only had one in the 6.5 years we've been together and even that one was planned/thrown by me, only had 3 other people, and was at an arcade/restaurant.
Aside from my clothes, the bridesmaids, and the bridesmaids clothes, my dude will have a say and be asked his opinion on everything whether he likes it or not (he'll be slightly annoyed unlees he's playing video games and then he might not hear or be pissed). The only thing that I won't have a say in are his clothes, the groomsmen, and the groomsmen clothes.
thursday said
Saw this when I went with a male friend to Jo-Ann's to buy parts for his sewing machine. They kept asking me questions and I would just say "I don't know" and look at him.
…that technique might be more disturbing in wedding planning land though.
Brandi said
Oh my god, super Bride centric wording and photography drives me insane. I see posts from photographers that seem like it's a photo shoot for the woman only, as if the man is some kind of accessory! I absolutely love it when grooms are involved. My husband was quite involved and I'm so glad he was.
Alice (OBT: dragonwort) said
Regarding the photo thing, to the photographers I say, I love the photos of my groom more than some of the photos of me! It's because I want to remember his face on that day too. My groom is the one photographed above, btw.
Sarah said
I'm really glad for this article! I can't tell you how many times I have told people that it's OUR wedding rather than my big day. I also try to check-in with him as much as possible to ensure that we're still on the same page about everything. He has been an excellent partner and has been very patient about my over-zealous DIY plans. I agree with everyone who has said they will only work with vendors who respect and acknowledge both partners.
Alicia said
I haven't seen this yet, but I think that's because my fiance has taken care of almost all the vendor negotiation for us. I like to find things and come up with ideas, but when it comes to dealing with sales people I get really uncomfortable. Thank goodness he comes to the rescue! Also, almost all of our vendors so far are men, so I think that helps.
Maybe that's the trick, have your significant other make all the appointments, so they get used to the idea that he has a say in things before you meet in person.
Rachael said
Ugh, this makes me feel icky – though we didn't experience it to this extreme in NZ. Vendors etc seemed to address us equally, though I tend to be more organised by nature so a lot of the details fell to me by default, not because he wasn't interested.
Lately I've been watching a lot of wedding stuff on TV, movies etc (bad idea) and it's HORRIBLE. The movie Bridesmaids? Hardly a mention of the groom, in fact the main male role seems like just a prop to help the main female character find balance. Some other show featuring 4 competing brides comparing their weddings, again hardly a mention of the groom.
If I was a groom being treated like this, I'd be pissed. It would be like being treated like a guest at your own wedding. Sad.
MisterZombie said
Luckily I haven't dealt too much with this issue when visiting vendors in person, though I get it a lot from online wedding sources. My Bride is a shy, soft-spoken woman who will more fade to the background than step up and speak for herself (I've been slowly helping her get out of her shell these past 4 years though). She also has no idea what goes on or into a wedding since she has never been to one. So, I've had to step up many times to coordinate the entire ordeal. I still consult her for her opinions and we work as a team, but I'm typically the one doing the talking.
When we go into a vendor, I'm the one who steps forward and says "Hello, I'm GroomName and this is my Bride, BrideName." I shake hands, etc. Doing this gives both of us the vendors attention, they still talk to her because she is the Bride, but they also talk to me and look to me for finality since I made the choice to be more assertive in my position.
Sometimes I worry that this makes me look controlling, but that is far from the case. The most comments I get from vendors is typically an incredulous "Wow! How do you know so much about weddings??" and my Bride typically responds cheerfully "Trust me he knows more about it than me!" and laughs. Though this has given me strange looks that I know are questioning my sexual orientation as if it some how matters. Male stereotyping (whether gay or straight) is a whole 'nother problem in and of itself. So the frustration I feel at that is more about the idea of men liking and being good at design must be gay, and not being called gay. Labels! Stereotypes! Barf. Anyways…
It can be a bit off putting to be treated as second class in the WIC, which I only get from online sources (I have yet to find a blog or website dedicated to an enthusiastic wedding planning groom.) Its all "Bride this" and "Bride that". Men are expected to not to give a shit about it and it has become pretty alienating.
But I'm glad Offbeat Bride has welcomed me with open arms
Andrew said
Really sorry you've had a bad experience. If it's any consolation, I really have seen it change in the last couple of years. *Finally*, vendors are starting to look at grooms in a different light. It's a slow process but at least there's movement. In short – your kids will salute your work…
Andrew said
Oh and btw if you think that weddings are bad for excluding men, wait until the babies arrive…