Offbeat Divorce, Part 2: The Separating #Relationship Advice#divorce#relationships May 4 | Guest post by Kate Leroux Photo by Caroline Welch of Constructive Tendencies As I said in Offbeat Divorce, Part 1, my marriage failed. After a period of struggle, we decided to separate (and have since divorced). The separation process was also fraught and sometimes felt impossible, but I got through. Here are a few things I learned. (Note: We have a daughter together, so these guidelines apply to parents more than they might to divorcing couples who can sever all ties if they choose.) DON'T CHEAT I'm not referring to actually cheating on your partner. Instead, I'm talking about the rules and guidelines you work out between yourselves as you separate. I agreed with my ex that we would inform each other about certain things regarding our daughter (times when she'd be watched by a third party, for example, or when she has an upsetting experience). We've kept that up, even when telling the other person about an incident leaves us open to criticism. That's challenging, but worth it, because it fosters trust. ACCEPT YOUR EX'S FAULTS During the time of separation, you're probably vividly aware of your ex's faults. Some of them may have played a part in your split. But now is the time to stop trying to change, fix, or fight those faults, because you're never going to be able to do that now. Instead, try to find a way to work around your ex's faults, to make allowances for them and the intense emotional struggles they're going through. They're imperfect, and so are you, and it's to both of your advantage to find a way to work together anyway. TAKE YOUR TIME Separation is a slow emotional process. It took me a long time before I could even use the term "divorce" for the direction we were headed. That's OK. Don't rush yourself. There are so many things to be decided between you (especially if you're parents), that you can work on the easier stuff while you put off the things you don't feel ready to tackle. In my case, we worked in spurts, focusing on the decisions and paperwork for a while, then taking an (unspoken) emotional break. Once we'd developed a track record of being able to agree and move forward on things, it felt more possible to discuss the difficult issues without derailing everything. THINK BEFORE YOU RESPOND During our separation process, we both did things to hurt each other. Maybe we meant it sometimes, maybe we did it without knowing, maybe we couldn't help it in the heat of the moment. The point is, we were each sometimes faced with behavior that was hurtful. Because we were separated, this usually happened via phone or email. When it happened to me, if at all possible, I tried to stop and think before responding. My body and heart reacted in pain or guilt or anger, but I tried to respond as if what he had said were more neutral. I tried to avoid escalating the problem, and instead tried to model the kind of behavior I wanted us to exhibit. I tried to think about the long term instead of the current awful moment. Related Post Offbeat Divorce, Part 1: The Struggling Hi, my name is Kate and I failed. I had a somewhat offbeat wedding, was married for 8 years, ultimately failed at it, and got... Read more NO LAWYERS For us, it was as simple as that. We chose to cling to any remaining shreds of trust we still shared and do everything in our power to keep lawyers out of the equation. Take the time you need to decide things on your own. Consult friends. See a mediator. Divorce is expensive enough as it is; don't pour unnecessary thousands more down the litigation drain, unless it's truly necessary. Updated to add: please remember that this post is written from Kate's perspective about what worked for her. Avoiding lawyers won't work for all situations, and your mileage may vary. We understand many of you have needed lawyers, and that's ok too. 50/50 CUSTODY FEELS GOOD If you're a parent, I encourage you to seriously consider 50/50 custody. For us, it was a natural choice because we'd been equal parenting partners all along. In retrospect, though, I'm especially glad we did. It just feels better, when it comes up, to say that we're still equal co-parents. That both of us share equally in our daughter's life, and are both equally entitled to make decisions, get notifications, etc. That neither of us appears, even just on paper, to be a more primary parent than the other. YOU DID YOUR BEST Chances are, there are times in your relationship that you look back on and feel bad about now, given how things ended up. For me, I had a hard time thinking back on our good times and shared dreams. It was hard to reconcile that with the current awful situation. Eventually, what I realized was this: I did my best. And so did my ex. Back when we were happy, we did our best. And when things were complicated and falling apart, we did our best, given the mighty challenges and crazy situation. It doesn't mean our happy past was a lie — it was real to us. We just didn't know then what we know now. If you're able to see the past in this light, it can allow you to forgive yourself a little bit more. Reporter Name * Reporter Email * Original text Enter the original text here. Edited text* Enter your suggested copyedit here. Notes You can add a note for the editor here. * Required information. Fix Typo Guest post written by Kate Leroux Kate Leroux is a thirtysomething mother of one living in Seattle. She works in the software industry and seeks out high places when she wants peace. http://mynameiskate.com PREVIOUS Karen & Jon's granny-tastic wedding decor will make your heart flutter NEXT Katrina & Brandon's princess and pirate Renaissance wedding Show/Hide comments [ 29 ] Re: avoiding lawyers – YES! And I say this as a person who works in a law office! So often have I seen people line the pockets of divorce attorneys just because they feel the need to fight tooth and nail over every stinking little thing (or because one/both have an axe to grind – my mother purposely dragged out divorcing my dad so as to "punish" him – bad idea, now they're both bankrupt). I am twice-divorced, and both times, we did it WITHOUT lawyers, despite the free help offered to me by coworkers, and I'm really glad we did. It lended a certain dignity to it, I think – I felt like we were responsibly acting like adults instead of being impossible. Again, Kate, thank you for sharing your words of advice. 9 agree Reply Woah….careful if you go no lawyers. Oftentimes you can get screwed, especially since women tend not to stand up for themselves as much 23 agree Reply I am a woman who sometimes struggles to stand up for myself, tegan, and what I found helped was just taking enough time. If there was a request that I found too much or sounded off, I took a break and thought about it for a while. We often tabled issues and came back to them. We wrote down how we thought things in our agreement should be worded. Given enough time, pretty much any woman (even the meek) can stand up for herself, even if she does it in writing rather than in person. That said, if your soon-to-be-ex lawyers up or is excessively unreasonable, you should get a lawyer too. I was lucky to have a reasonable person to work with, despite all the emotional crap going on. 7 agree Reply I'm my experience it's the men who don't stick up for themselves. Or can't because they're 'the bad one'. Or a multitude of other lame excuses their ex partners thrust on them. I get what you're trying to say about lawyers but I feel all types and stages relationships benefit from improved communication. The author suggests mediation or other forms of working through divorce. Sure sometimes lawyers are best but they are often looking at their monetary contract rather what's best for the people in front of them. Or one lawyer is better than the other so one side is more strongly defended than the other. Lawers aren't evil but it's like opting too demolishing a building rather trying to employ builder to repair it. Sometimes demolition is needed sometimes tlc is all that is needed. 1 agrees Reply This is exactly what happened to me. We agreed no lawyers, yet he went behind my back and got one. I got completely screwed! Now I am trying desperately to take him back to court without any resources. Get a lawyer if you think there is even a remote possibility the other person might go back on their word. 2 agree Reply I know a lot of lawyers are difficult. But many times, attorneys are a good idea. In Texas, collaborative law is coming into adolescence. The two lawyers work together and the spouses sign a document saying they will work together. Its much more holistic and friendly, especially if there are children. 8 agree Reply Yeah, as far as the lawyer thing goes, it really depends on your individual circumstances. Some couples can handle it really well without one, but in my parent's divorce my dad was so manipulative that my mom's friends put their collective feet down and said "honey, you need a lawyer or you're gonna end up homeless." 5 agree Reply If you can be civil, going no lawyers is great. With my divorce I ended up getting a lawyer but only because my ex dragged his feet on everything and kept saying he "didn't have the money" to file the paperwork and such. But, once I got a lawyer I did a lot of talking and such instead of paperfiling. My situation just really needed two independent people with no emotional issues involved. Our county requires mediation for any divorce (other than those involving domestic abuse) and I had wanted that anyways. The mediation was all we really needed, my fiance was able to finally agree to things and our lawyers were able to keep things on track and make sure all things were taken care of. If you go the lawyer route and can afford it collaborative divorce teams are awesome. But, definitely remembering to be fair and that neither of you is perfect is best. When kids are involved always doing what's best for them gets you a win in the end no matter what. 50/50 custody didn't work for us as I live over 2 hours away now but if we'd been closer I would have gone for it. Reply Continuing on the lawyer/no lawyer front — there are a couple more civil and not-too-expensive options if the two people splitting up agree already about how property/kid placement/etc will work out. One is to work through an organization that will help you with the divorce paperwork and make sure that you're filling things out correctly. Unfortunately, there is no longer such an organization in our community, so we found a lawyer who was willing to work with both of us (technically, she was representing me & my ex was "unrepresented" — but we both went to our meetings with her and agreed on terms together.) Because we wanted to keep things very simple, this was helpful when we actually got to court — she could explain some things to us and explain our stance (e.g., why we were waiving child support, long story & good decision in our case) without unnecessary drama or fuss. Reply Re lawyer: See a lawyer in your jurisdiction as soon as you think you might possibly get seperated, let alone divorced. Often women's shelters or community legal centres will provide or direction you to a lawyer who will discuss your options for free. The reason for this is to simply make yourself aware of the legal ramifications and possibilities. Certainly, if you can arrange your divorce without professional legal assistance that is great but you need to know your options. 5 agree Reply Kate, I know you got some positive feedback on your first post, but discussion on this one seems like it got kind of overwhelmed by concerns about not hiring a lawyer. I just wanted to say this was a really lovely and honest post, and bravo to you and your ex for being able to be as mindful and constructive as you were. Some people just aren't in a position to do that, of course, but it is great that you were and it will benefit your daughter so much. 11 agree Reply Amanda, thank you for saying this. Gang: this comment thread had gotten completely focused on one small component of Kate's article: lawyers. We understand and completely respect that many of you had very valid reasons for needing lawyers in your own separations, and encourage anyone considering a divorce to research their options. That said, Offbeat Bride's comments are not the place to get into explaining what your partner (or a friend's partner) did to necessitate lawyers. Kate wrote her piece as a way to share her experience of divorce. Divorces are going to be as varied as weddings, and as with all other perspectives on Offbeat Bride: your experiences may differ, sometimes drastically. 7 agree Reply I checked out some books at the good ole library about divorce to educate myself on divorce after my husband split last year. The Smart Divorce by Deborah Moskovitch is a good book. It helped me understand some of the legalese, know my options, and save money. … Also joining a divorce support group has helped. I found one at divorcecare.org. 2 agree Reply Thanks, Ariel. If I could re-write it now, I'd say something more along the lines of this: Avoid lawyers if you can. In almost every case, lawyers drain trust as well as money. If there's even a little trust left, recognize that it's extremely valuable. Cling to it and work from it, because once you lose that trust, I think it'd be really hard to build it back (if that's even possible). Not only do we have some trust left (battered as it may be), I am very proud of me and my ex for being able to accomplish a divorce without lawyering up. That mutual pride is a positive ingredient we can add as we build our new co-parenting relationship. Also: to be clear, we did hire a mediator who is a lawyer. He didn't represent either of us, but was there to advise us on the process and make sure our paperwork was in order. He helped us work through a few issues, but at $300/hour, we were motivated to hash most of it out on our own. There are many divorce situations where a lawyer is a good idea; I just hope that offbeat-style couples might be able to avoid it more often. 1 agrees Reply I think this is the first time I've ever read advice on getting a divorce that didn't focus entirely on either making sure you get your fair share (or more!) of the assets or how to put it behind you and start acting like everything is ok again ASAP. Not that I've read a huge amount of divorce advice, but it's still a suprising contrast. It's nice to see so much focus on getting things right for everyone involved rather than how to get your way all the time. 8 agree Reply I think that Kate's posts put divorce into a more neutral perspective. There as so many emotions that are involved around divorce (the couples, the family's, friends, and possibly children) and outside influences that it seems like it would be really hard to take a step back and look at your situation through unemotionally biased eyes. I think kate does a great job of putting it into words some things that people may forget in the middle of a very unsettling time. Even though I am getting married this year I still try to be realistic about the future. I know that even though I don't want it to happen, my marriage, my brothers marriage, or even friends marriages may not last forever. I just hope that if that time does ever come, I can fall back on Kate's advice and take it all on one day at a time. 1 agrees Reply I love these offbeat divorce posts. When I got divorced, it seems like I followed all this advice without even knowing it. It's strange to me that we were more civil throughout the divorce than we were in the last months of our marriage. When you have a mature adult couple with no children and few assets it probably helps it a bit, but I got the lawyer and an agreed divorce, which is pretty cheap in the state of TN. Thanks for your advice and your courage to share your story. I found that after I got divorced, several of our friends started the split process too and I know my advice really seemed to help them. I hope yours can help out people on this site who are ready to take the separation step. Reply Just wanted to chime, as I actually am a lawyer (and, come this June, an offbeat bride, too!). Now in arts/biz law practice, but I used to handle a lot of divorce and custody matters. The author makes an excellent point – divorce and custody proceedings can take a huge toll on human dignity, often even when they're handled with all possible care. But…I would say don't forego having a lawyer to navigate the process for you, because it's such a complex area, and crucial rights are at stake, often not only for you and your soon-ex, but for your kids, as well. Instead, focus on finding THE RIGHT lawyer. And by RIGHT, I mean one who is not only a sharp-as-hell lawyer, but also a human being who will respect your dignity and help, rather than hinder you in creating a working, trusting relationship with your ex. I know, sounds like a paradox, but they really are out there! You should interview attorneys thoroughly, and don't be shy – come right out and say these things are important to you. Trust me, the right attorney will both hear, and respect what you have to say. 6 agree Reply Leaving a marriage is strangely similar to entering it. There are conventions and rituals, you get input from everyone and it's often conflicting, and it really comes down to doing what works for your situation. Taking time to process each phase allows you to choose well. Yeah, weird emotional crap will blindside you for a while even if splitting is the absolute right thing to do. (Happily single Me, a year later, upon learning he and his new girlfriend got a dog: He never wanted a dog with ME! *sob* Oy.) There really can be an “offbeat divorce” if both parties can stay rational and at least tolerant. Every situation is different, but making the decision to split doesn't mean that your life will become filled with angry bitterness. Having experienced a divorce in my 20's, I can say that taking time and allowing the process to move forward when we were ready was a big help. There is so much swirling around you at the beginning… who is moving, how are we telling people, can we stand to talk to each other, why can't I stop/start crying, what does this say about me as a person, etc… that pacing yourself and basically taking time off from each other once in a while can make the process a lot easier. 6 agree Reply Thank you SO much for posting this!!! I'm still engaged at the moment and the wedding date is six months away as of next week and for the past six months I have been going through ALL of these feelings, as mentioned in the post weeks worth of emotions in a single day. My fiance and I have been together for ten years, living together for three of them, engaged for almost a year now. Six months ago he dropped a bombshell on me that he's not sure if he wants kids or not anymore. I understand and respect other people's decisions not to have them, but there has never been a single, solitary doubt in my mind that I will be a mother one day. He's never been the kind of person to just bend to society or play along with anything I say just to make me happy. When he bought his car, he made sure it had four doors to make it easier to get a car seat in and out. When we bought our house together, we made sure it had an extra bedroom that could be turned into a nursery when the day came. I've been trying SO hard to be supportive of him so that he can make the right decision for himself and for me then too because I certainly don't want him to have them for me and then we're in an even bigger mess with kids involved. I try, but I feel so betrayed that for so many years and when we got engaged I had this life to look forward to and now I'm so full of anger that he might be destroying my dreams, even if he's not doing it on purpose. Of course I have those friends that say, "just leave, I would never let anybody put me through what he's doing to you." They just DON'T understand that it's not that simple. It's even painful to look at the OBB blog while my wedding is on hold but also still hanging in the balances (he keeps telling me it's not us, it's not the pressure of the wedding and to keep planning). So, I was SO RELIEVED to find this today. Even though I don't know any of you and I want this blog to remain happy, it's so nice to know you guys are here on my screen. Thanks again and much love to you all. 4 agree Reply Ironically, this is all excellent advice, not just for separating, but for also getting married in the first place. Especially on accepting the other person's faults, and to "stop trying to change, fix, or fight" them. 4 agree Reply I would just like to make a brief addition to this wonderful advice real quick. I know that divorce is hard and painful on everyone. But if there are children involved, please make that extra effort to make things easier on them. My parents divorced when I was 3, and so I don't remember the really really bad parts of their marriage. All I knew growing up was divorce. But my parents made an extreme effort on both sides to make things better for me. My dad remarried first, and very soon after the divorce, which I knew even at my young age upset my mom. Eventually my mom remarried too, but it was hard for a few years for my mom not knowing much about my stepmom or what she would be like towards me. I'm incredibly lucky. I have two wonderful step-parents who took it upon themselves to be a big part of my life without overstepping their boundaries. By the time of my high school graduation 10+ years ago, my mom, dad, stepmom, stepdad, and families from all sides were able to come together and celebrate without fighting, bickering, holding grudges, or any of that. It was because of the efforts of my mom and dad during the toughest times of their divorce that we can all celebrate holidays together, and I no longer have to choose between seeing one parent or the other. In fact, my parents get along better now than they did during their 14-year marriage. I know it's hard, and I know that this won't work for all divorces, because let's face it, sometimes one party just isn't ready and/or willing to go that extra step. And, in many cases, you may be coming out of an abusive relationship, and in that case of course this advice wouldn't apply. But if you are both reasonable, loving people – if you both love your children and you both want to remain in their lives and you really want to make things easier for everyone involved, make that extra effort. Don't trash talk to your kids. I've seen it happen – no good can come of it, and it upsets and confuses even high school-age kids. Keep it to yourself, or vent to your best friend, your sister, your parents – anyone but your kids. Don't turn your kids against your ex. Don't put them in a position to choose, which is easy to do even if you don't realize you're doing it. Make compromises. Pick your battles. Not everything has to be a fight. Things will always heal with time, and your children will be better off for it. I know I am. 5 agree Reply Thank you so much for this perspective, Natalie! My ex and I really want this to be our future, and it's reassuring to hear that it can happen when everyone works together. All along we've been careful to keep the trauma and difficult stuff hidden from our daughter, and make an effort to promote and foster each other's relationship with her. I really hope we're on the same positive path that your family took! Reply Yes!!!! Blended family success is awesome! My experience is from the new wife and step-mom side of things, but our dynamic is similar to how you describe your family, Natalie. We all worked incredibly hard on "being the grown-ups" for the first few years and are totally reaping the rewards now. What the kids want is stability, a loving family and knowing where to look to find their parents on the sidelines… and we can make all of that happen if we just choose it. You don't have to be best friends and go on vacation together (though I know some that do!) but you can be kind and friendly and at least open. It's not always easy, but SO worth the effort. 1 agrees Reply As the girlfriend of a divorce lawyer, I'd like to weigh in on the lawyer issue. My man comes home with some atrocious stories. The funny stories are of people who will fight over material items without realizing that the lawyer's time is costing more than the item itself. Or, maybe they do realize this but believe in the "sentimental value" of the item. So if you're going to get a lawyer, find someone who's not going to let you make a case out of ratty old tea-towels, if it comes to that. The sad stories are the one of abused women who are still being harassed by their soon-to-be exes. Ladies: many states will let you sue for attorney's fees, and if you have to put the law between you and him, do it. It is worth it. 3 agree Reply I know this is an older post, but I wish it had been around when I was going through my divorce. Especially the part about taking it slow. My ex and I were only married for 10 months of our 3 1/2 year relationship, but he was in such a rush to get out and pushed me so many times to the point of tears over the phone yelling at me about why I couldn't just sign this or sign that, there was nothing to take my time about. I was so hurt and in so much pain already, and he just kept making it worse. I'm now engaged again and looking forward to my upcoming nuptials, but it def brings my previous marriage to my attention again. It's so nice to see this site took the time to put this out there. Thank you so much. 1 agrees Reply As someone now going through an "Offbeat Divorce" (no kids, living in foreign countries, no joint assets, no real animosity), these two articles were really helpful to me. I tried to keep all of these things in mind as I navigated the paperwork (and eventually the hiring of a lawyer for foreign legal system reasons). As an FYI to OBBs living abroad who want to file for divorce: check your state's residency requirements. I had to file in the Czech Republic because after living there for two years, I no longer met Vermont's residency requirements for filing. You may also run into the issue of not meeting the residency requirement in your home country, either (something of a lovely grey area in many countries). If you live abroad, definitely consult with a lawyer in your country before you try to file. It could save you a lot of frustration and money in the long run. My ex and I are still on pretty good terms, but the language barrier and unfamiliar bureaucratic process made avoiding a lawyer impossible. Something to be prepared for if you're living abroad and don't speak the local language fluently. (That said, if anyone needs a divorce lawyer in Prague, I can definitely recommend someone). 2 agree Reply I'm going through my own Offbeat Divorce and it's amazing how hard it is for some many of our friends to be okay with us "being okay" with our separation. It makes our work harder. 2 agree Reply I also "failed" at marriage. Twice. Both were men I really, truly, from the bottom of my heart, with every fiber of my being loved and thought I would spend the rest of my life with. It's very hard to not feel like a failure, especially the second time around. Shouldn't I have foreseen the problems? For me, the biggest lesson has been learning how strong I am, how capable I am, I can be self-reliant (and raise 2 great kids in the process). When I tap into that I am a much happier person, whether married or single. But when things went south in my marriages I took the blame emotionally, even though in at least one case there were mostly external factors leading to our demise. I felt at fault because I couldn't fix the problems. If I could add one thing to this list it would be: Get counseling. Individual, couples and/or family. My second husband and I are now separated-headed-for-divorce. We each go to individual counseling, plus have a couples counselor. While it may seem counterintuitive to go to a couples counselor when you're headed for divorce, it's actually crucial for us. First of all, it's the one place we can communicate effectively without devolving into an unproductive heated argument. Having someone trained to keep us both on track and civil is hugely helpful. We cover everything from the mundane to the intensely emotional. I have almost no contact with him outside that setting. Second, I want to learn what went wrong with us so I can a) avoid the same pitfalls and mistakes in future relationships and b) heal from the pain this relationship inflicted. In that same vein I'd like to say that, for me, a big part of the healing process this time around is acknowledging the role that depression and anxiety have played and continue to play in my loss of self confidence. They are a part of my journey and it feels disingenuous to ignore their presence. I think offbeat divorce is by far the best of a bad situation. Taking time to be true to yourself and all the others involved (i.e. spouse/s and children) can definitely make for years of happier living down the line. Reply Join the conversation Cancel Reply Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked * Comment Notify me of follow-up comments by email. No-drama comment policy Part of what makes the Offbeat Empire different is our commitment to civil, constructive commenting. 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