Defining gender roles in weddings and marriage
Relationship Advice
By
on December 06, 2010
33
Me and Andreas in Seattle's Seward Park
Questions for those outside normal gender roles in their wedding:
- Who proposes?
- Who literally wears the pants?
- Who ends up walking down the aisle?
- Who do you choose for your bridal party?
- Who takes the last name?
- How do you go about explaining your decisions to your family while being sensitive to their perception of traditional gender roles?
These, I think, are more difficult questions for people with defined gender roles, namely straight couples. But I think both straight and same-sex couples can teach each other a lot about how to go about a gender-neutral wedding. -Stephanie
Stephanie, I absolutely agree: in some ways, same-sex couples are at an interesting advantage when it comes to really disassembling gender roles in weddings and marriage. This is something we've touched on in the past (Lesbians have a lot to teach you about marriage), but it's a big subject and one I'm always down to chew over.
The other night I was over my gaybor's watching Glee, and afterwards we got into a big conversation about commitment and monogamy and gender and gay vs. straight relationships and you know, just the little stuff.
"It's weird," he said. "I know you and Dre are, like, a man and a woman who are married and have a baby and stuff, but I just don't think of you as very straight."
"Sure," I laughed. "That's because culturally, our relationship is more like if a gay man and a lesbian got married. But I'm the gay man, and he's the lesbian." We cackled over this for a while, but really it's one of those "funny cuz it's true" things. Dre grew up surrounded by midwestern academic lesbians, and sort of became one himself ("I can't help it," he once sheepishly explained to a disappointed gay friend. "I just love women!"). I, meanwhile, came of age in San Francisco, immersed so deeply in a gaggle of gay boys that sometimes when I was out at clubs dancing in my phat pants, visor, and oversized sporty t-shirts, I'd get confused for a little twink.
From the very beginning, Dre and I have tried to built our relationship around our individual strengths instead of the gender-defined roles. Given our lesbian family backgrounds, I feel like surely we've got an advantage on tackling these thorny issues … but it's still a massive, daily challenge. I mean sure: in many ways, we flip the gender expectations. I've always been the more entrepreneurial and work-horsey of the two of us. He's always been much more nurturing. He's kind and patient; I can be cold and dismissive. I bring home the bacon; he cooks it. We share parenting duties, but I'd say it's 60/40 — with him doing more babycare than me.
But in other ways, we're totally 100% gender normative: He's a total jock (granted, a new age jock who teaches yoga and acrobatics classes, but still) who takes out the trash and deals with the car. I love makeup and clothes and addressing all the holiday cards. He drinks beer, I sip froofy cocktails. Gender norms: check, check, and check.
When it came to our wedding, we aimed for equality: I initially proposed, but ultimately getting married was a decision we came to together. We walked down the aisle together, too. We both kept our last names. Our goal was to come together as two people who happened to be a man and a woman. I was not given away. He didn't stand at the altar waiting for me. We cut the cake together, both hands on the knife. There was no garter, no bouquet tossing.
…Then again, I did much of the wedding planning (of course!). He wasn't ready to get married when I first brought it up (commitment-phobic dude? TYPICAL!). I had to force him to do thank you cards (stereotype ahoy!). In some ways, despite our gender-torked backgrounds (he's so lesbian! I'm so gay!) we STILL found ourselves embodying the traditional gender roles.
Sometimes I fret that my non-gender normative traits (like not cooking) are actually just rebellion (cooking is oppression! I WILL NOT BE OPPRESSED!) instead of just an authentic expression of my actual strengths.
And this is where many same-sex couples have a lot to teach het couples: when you're building it all from scratch, there's less wrestling over the norms. Sure there are butch/fem lesbian relationships that look a bit more gender-normative — but it's still an appropriation of gender roles as opposed to a defaulting. When it comes to same-sex marriages, there's just less culturally-established baggage about what it should look like, or who should do what.
This can potentially means both less falling into easy gender traps ("Oh, I'm the wife, so of course I'm the one who thinks about home decor") as well as less pushing so hard against them that you knock yourself over. Case in point: sometimes I fret that my non-gender normative traits (like not cooking) are actually just rebellion (cooking is oppression! I WILL NOT BE OPPRESSED!) instead of just an authentic expression of my actual strengths. Straight couples have significant challenges when it comes to redefining and reclaiming their relationship roles outside of gender definitions.
So, how do you do it? Keep asking questions. Stay awake. Assume nothing. Don't assume he'll take care of the car. Don't assume you'll take care of picking out the new couch. Avoid relationship "role fatigue." Don't take the easy way out. Keep explaining yourself and your decisions to family members.
It's not easy (following a template is always easier than writing your own book), but it's worth it.
About Ariel Meadow Stallings
Author of Offbeat Bride: Creative Alternatives for Independent Brides, Ariel acts as the publisher of all the Offbeat Empire websites. She lives, loves, and dorks out hard in Seattle, WA.
RC said
Amen!
Nelle said
This is SO appreciated. The guy and I have discussed many times about how we often we defy typical gender assumptions. His hair is long, mine is short, he's comfy in kilts, I steal his clothes. We are equally clueless/informed on automotive matters, and share the cooking and like to buy groceries together. He enjoys decorating and shopping more than me and also knows how to sew. But he's extremely handy with building and repairs. I do more of the daily cleaning, but he's the go-to guy for scrubbing out the oven and shampooing the carpets.
Since his mother's a therapist, he's MUCH better about expressing his feelings and tends to be the gabby one, while I tend to clam up and bottle my emotions.
But most people would still call him distinctly masculine and me utterly feminine. We know he'll wear a kilt on our wedding day, he has the outfit picked out in his head to the last detail… but I'm still struggling with whether or not to wear a pant suit. Or white. Or whatever. I have no clue.
Sarah said
Shrugging off the trad. roles can also make it easier to embrace the parts of tradition you actually do find meaningful.
For example, I like to make dinner for myself and my boyfriend. Really, I just like to cook, but there's this subset of cooking called FEEDING MY LOVED ONES in my brain that lights up every time The Boy says "Hey, babe, that smells great. Thanks for cooking."
Seems to me like defining your own role as a girlfriend/wife/spouse/roommate-with-sexy-benefits-who-will-someday-be-a-domestic-partner is also about defining which ways you say "I love you." If you say it by fixing toilets and changing oil, more power to you. If you say it by mixin' drinks and throwing kick-ass parties, more power to you. If you do it by making really good chicken fingers, more power to you.
The point is that you're doing it because you want to do it, because it makes you and your partner happy. Not because you feel like it's the "good wife" thing to do.
Ariel said
The point is that you're doing it because you want to do it, because it makes you and your partner happy. Not because you feel like it's the "good wife" thing to do.
LOVE THIS!
Lori Del Genis said
YES YES YES
I feel the same way about doing laundry. I love to do it (it's a fabric thing) and I sometimes feel like I have to explain that I do it because I want to, not because it's my 'job'.
I hope that someday, no one will feel the need to explain anymore.
Sarah said
Lori– In the interest of supporting your unique way of expressing your love, you're welcome to come do my laundry whenever you want.
(Oddly, in my house, the laundry is a strictly BOYFRIEND job… possibly because I have a bad back, but more likely because I have the attention span of a squirrel on crystal meth and if it were up to me, there would be one pile of dirty laundry, a load sitting unwashed in the washing machine, some stuff in the dryer, a sock hanging in the shower to drip dry, and a couple of folded shirts in the living room… all at the same time.)
Danikat said
That sounds like my system!
Sarah C said
Love this.
Planning this whole wedding thing has made me feel excessively hetero (I've spent most of my adult life living in a queer-punk share house), and I'm super conscious of how we tend to fit into gender roles (he's good with a hammer and a nail, I'm good at cooking. I'm a seamstress, he's a programmer. etc). But I'm also aware that this isn't because we set out to be those feminine or masculine ideals.
We do what makes us happy and we work towards being a partnership ( he's learning to cook, I talk cars with his dad).
Meg said
Me just now:
"What's the role fatigue link? I'm so into learning about that."
Click.
"My own site. Oh. Darn it."
I have to say, I worry that my non-cooking hard-working self leaves my partner opressed sometimes. The balance is so hard…. yay for continuing the discussion.
Ariel said
HA!! Meg, hilarious. I was piqued by the term myself, and actually went searching online for more info about role fatigue and couldn't find any. Teri needs to write another guest post about it, clearly!
Teri said
You guys just can't forget about us! Nice to see we're being remembered fondly on our old forum, 3 years later!
And I'm so glad our post on APW is still reaching people. I'm rather proud of it.
Plus we're getting a bunch more hits on our webcomic because of this, and I LOVE the idea of getting more of the ladies (and gents) from over here in our readership. OBB POWER!
irisira said
I worry that my non-cooking hard-working self leaves my partner opressed sometimes.
My husband and I have had this discussion. I come home and I tend to either babble on about my work day, and/or hide on the internet and "decompress," while he makes dinner. It's led to more than one argument.
I don't mean to do this – I'm really a terrible cook, however he wants me to continue to "practice", not because he wants to cook less but more because he wants me to get better at it for the sake of getting better at it. I, on the other hand, resent wasting food but won't eat something that tastes like crap. So, my viewpoint is, Me cooking = us wasting food and/or going to bed hungry.
Danikat said
I find it kind of funny that I can identify with the outward side of the article – the part about both conforming to and defying gender roles (if anything needs fixing I'll be the one wielding the hammer, but I also love to bake) but when it comes to the internal side, the thinking about it, I'm the complete opposite.
Compared to the vast majority on this site I'm incredibly ignorant of gender issues, and yet somehow I seem to come to the same end-point as people who devote a lot of time and deep thought to addressing them, just by barelling through it without even realising there is an issue to address.
It never occured to me that who fixes the computer for example could be a question of genders and stereotypes. For me it came down to the fact that I have more experience and am generally more practical, so of course I'm going to do it.
I'm not sure if this is good or bad though. On the one hand, as I mentioned we seem to do pretty well at complying with or ignoring gender roles as it suits us without having to think about it so maybe it's good. On the other hand it makes me wonder what else I don't think about that might be affecting me and how I might want to do it differently…if only I knew what it was.
Anon said
I mostly ignore what the "traditional" gender roles are beyond making jokes about being a bad housewife (good at baking: check; good at cleaning bathrooms: check; good at keeping up the house or cooking a nutritious meal that isn't pasta with canned sauce: FAIL). We just do whatever we are better at or enjoy more than the other. I admit tidying is a problem, because neither of us enjoys doing it, but it's one of those things we feel we're both responsible for.
Thinking about our plans for the future, it would seem that my SO and I have pretty gender-normative roles ahead of us, but I'm not going into a "good little wifey" career (and am still upset that I will not have so much time with my children, because I do want to be an involved and present parent) and he has no problem making sure dinner is ready when I come home if he's been with the kids all day. To us it's less important that a certain person do certain things because it is or is not the apparent default role so long as we're both happy and things get done. I'd say my straight privilege only stops me into feeling guilty or awkward at the thought of the wedding itself, since there are a whole slew of political issues there. I don't care that at some point being "given away" was something deeply offensive to my sensibilities, because that's not the intent we'd do it with. It does bother me that I get to do it and there's no question of which one of us is given away if it's a tradition we want and that for some people just getting married is a barely dreamed of hope.
jennabee said
As a gender researcher, I have to say this was amazing. Thank you so much for writing and posting it!
Mags said
I totally agree with Nelle, thank you SO much! I've always felt rather out of place when it comes to weddings for this very reason. I wouldn't say that we're complete gender swap outs, but rather like being a lesbian couple (generally I try to stay away from saying it because I don't want to offend anyone).
Polity S. said
My impression is that this site is pretty typical of wedding sites in being overwhelmingly female, which seems to contradict the self-congratulation on how gender neutral one is. I mean the far greater interest in weddings is completely consistent with the traditional female. This raises questions of how much of the anti gender norm protestations are about political correctness? That is, how much of the self congratulation on having eliminated gender, is because you feel that is what is required as a public image, rather than your own true feelings? Is there really any difference in authenticity between a couple who adhere to traditional gender roles because society expects it rather than their own desires, and a couple who reverse roles because their alternative society expects it rather than their own desires?
Re the idealization of lesbian relationships: the assertion of one form of sexuality as being superior to another, should be problematic, as should be the airy dismissal of the strict gender roles in butch-femme. But on the off chance that someone actually believes it, then it provides a simple solution to anyone seeking the end of gender: just become a lesbian. Simple. Right? I mean what is stopping you? Since there are no real gender differences, heterosexuality is a myth. Right? Why is it being perpetuated? Why do you keep posting photos of brides in dresses and grooms in pants?
Jeliza said
There are a lot of weird assumptions in that last paragraph, imho. Gender and sexual orientation are not the same thing. At all. And Gender Roles are a whole 'nother thing.
Gender = male, female, intersexed, etc.
Sexual orientation = heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual.
Gender Roles = societal expectations of behavior traditionally correlated with gender, which are fairly sexist and heterocentric still, despite centuries of work.
Sexual orientation definitions *reference* gender, but that doesn't make it remotely the same thing.
There are plenty of transgendered heterosexuals comfortable with traditional societal gender norms who got born with the wrong equipment. And oddly enough, being a butch bisexual has not kept me from having to deal with the same plethora of expectations of "women's roles" — including that clearly I would be the one planning the wedding, taking care of the children, and cooking. When I date other queers, certainly it is more likely for them to have thought about their relationship to traditional gender roles, given that they've already had to deal with societal reactions to breaking the norm of heterosexuality, which *can be* (but isn't necessarily) a headstart towards forming more equal partnerships, but that's hardly an massive idealization of gay relationships over straight ones.
Sarah said
I agree with the part where you start off, saying that the predomination and focus on women and weddings on this site is problematic considering its gender-neutral sensibilities. It strikes me as a practical, business-related choice that was made because (as has been pointed out) there is really no market for wedding advice/planning for men (I believe Ariel mentioned at one point that she wanted to write "Offbeat Groom" and was told as much). That it was practical doesn't let anyone off the hook in my book; it seems a little insincere.
But the rest of your post loses me. I don't really know what you're getting at.
One thing I have noticed is that lots of women who are eschewing a typical female gender role will say that they don't do it because they're "bad" at it or say that without their partner, "it would never get done/be a mess". This bothers me in the sense that I never hear straight men apologizing for their lack of interest in home fashionings or cleaning or everyday cooking or wedding planning. But women treat these things as character flaws, further building up their male partner's importance. I think there's still work to be done in these instances. It reminds me of an NPR story about stay-at-home dads, to which a very insightful listener responded (paraphrasing), "It's all well and good for these men to be making the choice to fill this role, but we shouldn't forget that women are still expected to do so in the lack of a man choosing to step in. These guys get to choose. Most women have to take care of their kids, or no one would." I feel like this is a pattern that repeats in many scenarios; if the guy steps into an atypical role, he's welcomed and congratulated, but if he doesn't, the woman is assumed to bear that responsibility.
gesche said
I love this post
As a lesbian couple, we went (and are still going) through all the gender-defining and came out none the wiser. We're both such girls but I find that we are somewhat sharing the male gender role as well. In the end, we just try to look at our strengths and wishes and find compromises.
For the wedding plans, that meant:
I inititally proposed (rather spontaneously in bed), but she proposed right back (at our engagement dinner with a beautiful letter).
She wears pants more often than I do, but I just happen to be uncomfortable in pants and for the wedding, we'll both have fabulous dresses.
We'll walk down the aisle together.
Our bridal party consists of our most responsible and dearest friends and sisters.
I'm taking her last name. That I'd change my name was decided right from the start since I connect my name with my father's family who aren't in my life at all and whose name I don't want to share. We touched the topic of making up an entire new name for us, but she likes her name as well as the tradition of handing it down and keeping it in the family, so her name it is.
Sarah said
My boyfriend and I are not married (yet) but we live together and though we haven't really sat down and talked about it, I sometimes feel guilty that I don't clean house more. Also, I'm often better at it than him (i.e. I never have to wash dishes again because crap gets left on them), but we both work and I don't tend to have regular weekends (they shift around).
I do feel the "woman's role" guilt. I know it's unfair, but I can't help it sometimes. The boy does dishes (I cook, but only because he can't and I like to) and I put them away. He does floors and keeps up the cars and the computers. We both do yardwork. I do laundry (he helps sometimes) and we both put it away (but I fold it). I clean the bathroom and change the sheets on the bed and we both tidy up around the house. So compared to a lot of relationships, we're really quite equitable. But sometimes the wifey guilt makes me feel like I'm neglecting my house because I'm doing other things (did I mention I'm also in grad school?).
Does anyone else feel this way?
Jesscar said
Yes! I feel that way. My hubby and I do equal amount of chores around the house, but he tends to do the more "female" jobs like cooking/washing dishes and I tend to do the more "male" jobs like taking out the trash and money.
Even though we both agree that we do equal amount of work(and are very happy with the arrangements) I feel guilty when people find out that he cooks and cleans. Like that should be my job as the woman.
I feel like I have to justify and explain that I do other things instead and that he prefers those jobs over the ones I do.
He also wants to stay home with the kids while I go to work and again I feel like this has to be justified and explained to people. I definitely get pangs of guilt over both these issues even though logically I know that I shouldnt.
Kendochick said
I think the best thing to do is absolutely make 'roles' an on-going discussion. 'Cause let's face it, there will be changes and transitions that take place for the rest of your life – and these will impact how much time one person or another can devote to whatever it is that they do. My spouse, bless his heart, has totally picked up the slack in the house-cleaning since the last two months has been a non-stop juggling act of school, free-lance work and volunteer commitments. When he's working late or has schedule hiccups, I get the stuff done that needs to be done.
I think the mistake most people (straight, queer, poly, whatever) make in taking on a role is in expecting things to stay static: I do laundry, you cook supper. As I'm sure most new parents can attest, the best-laid schedules sometimes take a back seat to what *can* be done. Talking about it is the way to ensure that a) stuff gets done, b) no one feels like it's all falling on them because they're the only one(s) doing it, c) no one assumes what is going on is what everyone's happy with.
We discuss stuff all the time – sure, maybe we sometimes overanalyze situations, but I'd rather discuss something to death than find out that I've been obliviously assuming that just because my spouse likes doing the laundry, they're OK with doing all the laundry, all the time. We share the majority of chores and responsbilities: up until I went back to school, I was the main breadwinner. Now, he is. But neither of us assume that making the money means making the decisions. Dialogue, open and honest discussions, is the way to go. So-called normative gender roles have been so over-emphasized … and it's really funny when you learn that, throughout history, it's been those who worked from home (yes, generally women) who have made the money that ensured day-to-day survival.
In a nutshell: communication, people. Gay, straight, trans, poly, whatever – talking about s*** makes for informed, happy relationships.
Emily Rae said
"Sometimes I fret that my non-gender normative traits (like not cooking) are actually just rebellion (cooking is oppression! I WILL NOT BE OPPRESSED!) instead of just an authentic expression of my actual strengths."
THIS WAS MY LIFE. I knew I really loved cooking and many other house-ly things (cleaning! canning!), but I had to go through a time to figure that out. I really like it! I get great satisfaction out of it! And right now, since I'm single, it's easier to justify to others — clearly, I need to eat, and I am the one responsible for feeding myself. I was showing my grandma the 100+ jars I "put up" this year, and she said TWICE "Well, you'll make a good wife someday." The first time I said, "Grandma, I did this for me." The second time I ignored it. I'm not preserving fruit now for some man who may or may not be around in the next year before it should be eaten!
I don't really care anymore about "justifying", but I wonder how perceptions will shift once I do find someone/get married, and continue to do these householdy things. I hope people realize I do it because it's authentically part of who I am (creative, industrious) and not because of some stereotype.
Jessica said
I love this. I thank my Nerd all the time for letting me be the guy in our relationship, and when he squeals over a spider or equally silly things that make me giggle, I tell him what a girl he is.
I'm not defined by my gender, but who I am – and he is, too.
a bicycle built for two said
I love this post but I also feel like there is too much emphasis put on gender roles. Why does it matter and does anyone really care except the two people that are in the relationship and to take that a step further if the relationship is working do they even care. Maybe it is because I am gay but it isn't even an issue. When people ask us who the man is I just explain what genders make up a lesbian relationship.
Dina E said
>>When people ask us who the man is I just explain what genders make up a lesbian relationship.>>
Haha, yes, my partner does this.
But, um, this post is *about* gender roles. Of course it's going to put emphasis there…
Jen said
Oi yea. I catch myself wondering if I'm caving to gender norms because I like to do things considered domestic. I sew, crochet(poorly), cook, bake, do arty stuff, etc. On the other hand, I am genuinely happy when I'm doing those things. Then you tie in that I don't drive, my husband does, he loves beer, and he lurves his computer and other gadgets: well it seems like GENDER NORM DOOM. But then I remember that I like zombies and killing things in video games, he folds origami, I wear guys clothes alot, he's obsessed with his hair, and he hates hates sports. Well, that just means we're all different and we shouldn't not do what we love for the sake of not doing it, right?
Ana said
Ariel et al,
More posts like this! These are real issues that we all are dealing with (whether we think about it daily or not). Thank you for getting the conversation started.
Lex said
Thank you so much for posting this! I thought my fiance and I were the only ones! I have always said that I'm a gay man trapped in a straight woman's body and we both say I'm the man and he's the woman in the relationship. He has seen more romance movies than I ever will, he has 3 times as many clothes as I do, I love horror movies he hates them, he is good with kids I can't stand them and I'm the bread-winner. But I care more about my appearance and love to dress up (sometimes), I have to make him do thank-you notes, and I love doing all the wedding planning. But then again we both adore cooking, both love video games and fight over who gets to fix things or put the furniture together. I love that neither one of us expects the other to do anything just because of our genders; we both either do what we love or share the workload (like since I clean the house he takes the garbage out).
Plymouth said
The thing is, if you're avoiding letting tradition define gender roles and not trying to do a double-gender-change you're both going to end up falling into the traditional roles ABOUT HALF THE TIME on average! Because we live in a stupid society of stupidville where just about bloody EVERYTHING has a defined gender role. It pisses me the hell off that I can do half a dozen "masculine" things in the course of a day and as soon as I do ONE feminine thing I am accused of being a "typical girl". And I'm like "Hello? Were you paying attention to all those other things I just did?". Gender is broken.
Chicago Wedding Blog said
Totally agree! My partner is gender queer but we get asked all the time if 'she's the man' and we're both offended by it. I'm the handy-man in the relationship. She can barely swing a hammer and I'm as femme as they come. Thanks for the post.
Neko said
I love this article!!!!!! Especially the part about pushing against the norm too hard- there are some traditional things that I do enjoy and I feel sometimes that other feminists and non-conformists judge me for these choices. The point is that I am the one who is actively thinking out and making these choices- I am not conforming to a norm nor fighting for the sake of fighting.